EPISODE 391: Breaking Through The Ceiling of Complexity

Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

Dr. Kevin Christie: [00:00:00] All right. Welcome to the show, Brennan. I'm really excited to have you on, you know, know you for quite a long time and it's cool to, uh, get you on the podcast after some years of, of working together. So before we dive into our, our topics today, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself personally and professionally.

Brennan Donahue, DC: Uh, yeah, I am practicing out of St. Louis, Missouri. So I'm about 20 minutes away from Logan. Uh, I got a wife and two kids and, uh, that's the, there's the business side and there's the family side. You know, there, there are two different buckets that keep me pretty darn busy.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. And so you went to the Harvard of chiropractic schools as well, right?

That's right. Can't pass that up. And you're from the area, correct?

Brennan Donahue, DC: I am. Yeah. So I grew, I was born and raised in St. Louis, so I wasn't one of the transplants that come in and stick it out after graduation. Yeah,

Dr. Kevin Christie: I got there and I was like, you know, I, I told my wife now, cause she never, she's never been there.

And, uh, I was like, you know, I could live there. I could live there. She can't see it cause she's a Floridian like I am and cold [00:01:00] weather gets to her, but, uh, it's a phenomenal area.

Brennan Donahue, DC: There's a lot of perks of living dead center in the Midwest. So, you know,

Dr. Kevin Christie: a lot of cots

Brennan Donahue, DC: do no beach, but that's, we can travel to that.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, exactly. And you do, and you do, and we'll get to that for sure. Um, it's a topic I want to bring up as far as taking vacations. Cause we had a cool conversation around that some, some time ago, but, uh, before we dive into that, uh, when did, when did you graduate and what did you do after you graduated?

Brennan Donahue, DC: I graduated in August of 2016, and I started on my own right out of the gate.

Um, I did originally I worked with a practice management company and that, you know, I learned I quickly needed to break ties with that. But. It was for about the first year. It was a good way for me to get my feet wet and know, uh, what, you know, what road to take as I met some forks. So from there, I started in a CrossFit gym, a room, I mean, it was probably 10 by 10, uh, very small rented that from the gym owner.

And from there I started building out my current [00:02:00] space. And so now I have about 1300 square feet and a little bit, 200 square feet of that is gym space and the rest is clinic space.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Nice. And then, um, how long were you in the CrossFit gym?

Brennan Donahue, DC: I was in the CrossFit gym for only about seven months. So by March of 2017, I was practicing out of my physical location.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Good. You know, and I, and I talked to a lot of chiropractors about that. And frankly, that's what I did. You know, I I've shared it before, but I started, I started as an associate at a full blown clinic, which gave me a lot of good learning experience. And then, then I went into a partnership and I was inside of a.

Training facility, and it was a shithole, but it was, it was good in the sense that had a lot of pro athletes and all that. But, uh, I was there and then got out of that after a couple of years into an orthopedic group, which was, was a nice situation. But every, every time I hear someone that start starts out of the gym or wants to, I think it's actually a very viable.

Um, [00:03:00] start like you did, it's low overhead, gets you going. Uh, but I think you have to have a plan to get out of that because, um, there really is nothing better than your own space for, for many reasons, but it definitely offers a lot more growth potential. And obviously, uh, I think you've seen that, uh, but I think, um, I wanna, I wanna segue a little bit.

Um, you're, you're an ART provider like myself. When did you get ART certified?

Brennan Donahue, DC: I was full body by the time I graduated. Um, and so I, I started early on, maybe try to try three and just started tackling one a year with the discounted rate they were given at the time. It made a lot of sense and I resonated with it.

And so that there were a few components when I was a student that I knew I needed, right. Adjusting soft tissue back then taping was big. And so I really wanted to hone clinical aspect of chiropractic as much as I could, before I graduated, knowing that I then was going to. Figure out the business side as we went.

So,

Dr. Kevin Christie: yeah, no, absolutely. And so [00:04:00] you're, you're kind of ART right out of the gates, which is, which is cool. And I, I do recall when you and I first had our, our initial discussions and stuff, you were doing some onsite care. Is that correct?

Brennan Donahue, DC: Yeah, it was. Yeah. Um, I wasn't doing it through ART. I was doing on site care that I kind of had established on my own with HR directors.

And so I had two locations that I would go to, I think it was once every other week. And then, you know, that obviously we did that up until COVID time and then it never, by the time we came out of COVID time, I didn't have that time to allocate back to that type of.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Well, you know, it's interesting because I had a lot of, I had six corporate locations at one time and it was great.

Um, I remember it, it, it provided me with some extra income. It allowed me to actually hire my first associate cause he was doing some of the corporate and he was doing some in our clinic. Uh, but then, yeah, I got to a time. Where we just had to make decisions and we did to get out of that space. But I think it's, um, [00:05:00] very fruitful for a lot of people and at least a springboard.

Uh, how did you get into those corporate locations? Was it patients that were HR director directors?

Brennan Donahue, DC: Yep. Yep. People I knew through my office that were HR directors that I just started talking to and, um, and some of them had already had massage, so they knew the concept. And I said, let's take it a step further.

And they, they worked it up the chain and it That's how I kind of got my feet wet.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, that's how it worked out with us. And, uh, I think, you know, I get a lot of people still reach out to me about that. And I, you know, how's the best way to do it? It's, it's typically through your patience, right?

Brennan Donahue, DC: I didn't walk stone cold into any offices.

I don't know if I would have back then. I probably wouldn't have, uh, had the skills to pull it off. So.

Dr. Kevin Christie: And I think one of the, the take homes I wanted to spotlight on that was, uh, and we're going to get to where you're at now in a little bit, but I think in a, in a chiropractor's, uh, progression. So you're now, uh, you know, kind of eight years into this thing, eight, nine years.

And what's cool is when you're [00:06:00] early on and you're trying to gain traction is that you might find yourself. Um, adding some things and doing, you know, uh, maybe some corporate work here or working for a high school there, or, you know, some ways of increasing your, your, your take home pay. But then you're going to get to a certain point where, uh, the practice, uh, really becomes your golden goose and you got to focus more time on that.

And there's nothing wrong with, uh, you know, Whittling down what you're doing and getting rid of things, uh, to, to do that. And one thing I remember I had a hard decision. I opened up my own practice in April of 2010 and it was 2000, early 2011. And at that point I did not have an associate. Uh, I got an opportunity to travel on the, on the PGA and the champions tour to work with golfers and, and I had to go like Tuesday through Sunday.

And I got paid well to go, uh, but I was losing a week's worth of revenue and I did about six of them and I realized like, okay, this, I got this under my belt. It was really good [00:07:00] experience. I got to work with some really cool golfers. Uh, it definitely springboarded me and, and I, to this day can. Tell that story to some of my golfing patients.

And I think it's cool. And it gives me some credibility, but I realized I had to kind of cut that out. If I was going to really get my practice to grow, uh, to where it did. So I think a take home point of that is, uh, you know, early on in your career, you might add some things, you might bring some revenue, but then you got to do the cost analysis of it.

And I'm sure you, you did that to make that decision.

Brennan Donahue, DC: That's right.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. And, uh, I think it's, it's worked out, right?

Brennan Donahue, DC: It has no, and that's, I at one point wanted to only focus on that. Right. But as you start, uh, looking at how much can you produce per hour, right. You start figuring out this travel and, um, Uh, communicating with that many different patients while you're in that type of setting makes sense, or is it easiest just to bring it back in house?

So,

Dr. Kevin Christie: yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. So, um, now tell us where, where you're at now, as far as practice, uh, [00:08:00] what's it looking like? Give us a little bit of a kind of bird's eye view of the practice, your team, and then we'll, we'll kind of go from there.

Brennan Donahue, DC: Yeah, currently right now we have two docs. So we have an associate that is about five or six weeks in.

Um, he was a preceptor. So he's really been in my clinic for right about a year now, maybe even a little longer. Um, and which that is a game changer when you're trying to bring on an associate. Um, I currently have another preceptor as well. And then we have front desk staff and a billing specialist.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Nice.

Yeah. And you've done a great job with your, your preceptor program, um, which has been cool to see. And then, you know, I wanted to, I want to have you kind of tell the story a little bit of where, so you, you've been in our mastermind since the beginning. And I think you actually were in our coaching program since the beginning.

And it's a, it's a testament to your, Growth mindset. Cause like you said, when you got out of school, you were with a practice management group to help you kind of get out of the gates and that you're always looking to, to, to grow from that. But you've been in the mastermind for a bit in this last one, we were just in [00:09:00] Chicago, uh, and you kind of texted our group that, uh, you were, you were in Chicago and actually making money.

So tell us how, tell us about that and how that felt.

Brennan Donahue, DC: Oh, you know, it's it's one of those that anytime you travel, whether it's with your family or for seminar, and it's a Thursday, Friday into the weekend type thing. And as a solo doc, you always got to try and weigh those pros and cons on when you close when you don't close.

And how much money are you losing? Right? Um, I didn't take a trip for the first 5 years. I was in practice and that was because I was afraid to not have an income for a week when I had a staff that I had to pay, whether I was here or not. Um, but that had, you know, Fast forward to this past weekend and I was out Thursday, Friday, and we had patients being seen.

Staff was in office. The associate doc was there. Um, that just, it also eases your week because when you travel, you're cramming patients in left and right, where. I knew he was going to be here. And so it's like, nah, you're going to see Dr. Devin this week and we'll be back next. And I, [00:10:00] I want to know, you know, we, we go over seeing different docs.

Like we want our patients to be able to be interchangeable, but the whole scene collecting money while out of town was, that was a pretty darn good feeling. And I, I hope others can experience that too.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, it's huge. And one of the, I want to spotlight, I want to give credit to Dr. Doug Krebs, who's in our mastermind is, uh, cause a lot of people are always like, Oh, you know, how do you get your patients to see their doctor and things like that?

And he had a, a huge insight this past weekend where he talks about the care team. And so the patients are introduced to whether it's the associates, uh, maybe the preceptors, maybe it's the CAs. And you're, you're all introduced as part of the care team and you're developing a team around them so that it's somewhat interchangeable.

I'm, I'm, once I came back here from that, I started implementing that. Is that something you're going to look into to do a little bit more of?

Brennan Donahue, DC: It is. And we actually talked on our website, you know, it's meet our team. Most people have that page on their website. I think what we're going to do is we're going to print it on a piece of paper and have [00:11:00] that, you know, we use Cairo up and we use a few other sources that we put into a folder and it's like, let's put everybody's face on a piece of paper that's inside of that.

And here's meet your team, whether they've seen our website or not. So that's cool. We're going to implement it.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. And I think that's, you know, I've seen, I've seen some really good clinics do it. So I know it can be done. I know sometimes it's a mental hurdle. I've done it. Um, you know, I, I definitely could see how it could be a mental hurdle for some, but it's, it's a game changer when you get that clear with that.

So that is, um, that is great. Now I want to, I want to move back. You kind of mentioned it offhand that you didn't, uh, take any trips the first five years. And I remember, uh, we were down in, in Delray beach and. I think it was in 2019. It was probably December of 2019. And, uh, I got to meet you and your wife Caitlin for the first time.

And, uh, we was for the CSA retreat we had down here. So it was kind of a, an eclectic mix of, of chiropractors and students. And I remember having that conversation about. You got to take, you [00:12:00] got to take vacations, you know, you got to take trips. And I think, um, I think you guys have been doing that for the last handful of years, right?

What was the mindset shift on that? Even cause this was before you had an associate and it, how did you kind of overcome that and realize it was still worthwhile, right?

Brennan Donahue, DC: Uh, 1 when we got back from Delray, the practice was still alive, you know, and that was there was a great debate on whether we were both going to travel for that or not.

That was 1, but 2 that that 1st time I took a week vacation. We took a week off. We took the kids to Disney. Um, I was with my, my whole family when we were down there and. I came back and we had planned for it. We put money aside and I realized, I mean, we had our next, uh, three quarters of vacations planned by the time the wheels touched back down in St.

Louis after one trip. And it was just, it was a really eye opening experience. We now travel at least once a quarter, two of those quarters with our kids, two of those quarters. Uh, we, me and my wife do a trip, whether that is a elaborate trip or just a little getaway, a staycation, uh, something like that, because, uh, we just, it really [00:13:00] recharged our battery being gone for a period of time.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. And I think something that you've, you've, uh, Caught on too quickly is that, you know, you really got to build this practice to, to serve your family and you, you gotta be able to prepare for that. And you know, the sinking funds can do that, right? Just tuck away a little bit of money when you got good months and good weeks, tuck it away.

And if, uh, you know, let's say that vacation costs you 2, 500 and you lose 2, 500 in the practice, cause you're gone. If you're a solo practitioner, that's 5, 000. That's obviously real money. But if you. You know, over a year time or however many months tuck that away. Uh, and then once you do leave, you, you throw 2, 500 into your personal account to, to pay for the vacation at 2, 500 in your operating account for your business.

And, and it's no sweat. Uh, I, I do believe people that are, you know, Solo practitioners still need to take vacations. You just need to probably prepare a little more financially, uh, than if you have a team, uh, and obviously an associate doctor or a locum [00:14:00] tenants to do it. So I just think it's the biggest thing that chiropractors have to wrap their minds around is, is you still got to take the vacations.

Brennan Donahue, DC: I mean, the amount of energy I had when I returned, that was, that was the deciding moment, right? It was like, oh, and you, I mean, you also hear, unfortunately, those people that have been 10, 15, 20 years into practice, and they do not vacation and they, you see, they're, they're, they're struggling mentally there.

I don't want to, I don't know, burnt out or not. That's not my, um, position to say, but you can see that they are, they aren't enjoying it as they once were early on in practice.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, no, absolutely. It's, uh, it's definitely a real thing for sure. And you know, I've gotten to know you over the years and you definitely push the envelope as far as practice or even the fact that you train for Ironmans and races and things like that.

And, uh, you know, you gotta have that, you gotta have that outlet for sure. And there's no doubt that you've probably faced, you kind of abutted up against that burnout sometimes. Have you felt like you've hit that occasionally?

Brennan Donahue, DC: I have. And you know, it's kind of [00:15:00] funny as a younger doc, it's, In today's world, everybody picks on the youth.

And so you also don't want to be too soft. And so you sit there and question like, is this burnout or am I just being a little, a little chicken? You know what? Um, and so, but I have definitely approached those times where I've struggled. And luckily, I, part of that goes back to being a part of the mastermind and the coaching group.

I, you, if you are on an island by yourself, you're going to struggle by yourself. Right? But it has the mastermind has, um, Allowed me to continue to think big, but also see big and have a tribe around me that is able to help me know how to venture through some of those, those storms. So,

Dr. Kevin Christie: yeah, it's important to do.

It's kind of, it's like that quiet desperation that many have. And, uh, if you, if you don't have an outlet for that, it could be problematic. And I do think it's, uh, you know, it's sometimes. Understanding that we're a lot more resilient than we give ourselves credit for. Um, I think it's also understanding that no matter who it is, you could see chiropractors out there that are, [00:16:00] you know, just killing it and doing great.

They run into it occasionally. They have their doubts. They have their points of exhaustion. It's okay to. Get close to it and recognize. I think that's what happens as you get a little bit further in your career, as you start to see it coming a little bit quicker, you know, it's like, uh, okay, it's, it's, it's getting there.

Um, it's not there yet, but I need to, uh, take some free days. I need to take a vacation. I need to do whatever it may be. Right. Um, Maybe, uh, you know, for me, I'll give an example. What I've realized was I, I got out of the habit of hobbies. Um, you know, I, I, over the years I've had certain things like golf, um, kicking your ass and ping pong.

I mean, sorry, that was a, that was

Brennan Donahue, DC: a pretty,

Dr. Kevin Christie: we had a good ping pong match in Chicago, but, uh, no, like for me, it was, it was playing sports and I got away from it. And, and that was something where it's like, you know what? I need to go and shoot hoops a little bit more. I need to go play golf. I need to do stuff like that.

Uh, not only take some free [00:17:00] time. So I think you just, you realize when it's coming, be okay with it. Like if you're, you know, I think it's okay to work hard, right? Like there's nothing wrong with that. Uh, I want my kids to see that I work hard. I want, uh, I want to see the fruits of working hard, but I do think the old school thought of just suck it up buttercup with like, I am working hard.

That's not the right answer either. Uh, you know, I get. There's definitely a, a middle ground and I feel like, um, I've, I've had the pleasure of, of running into enough people and not just, not just, uh, chiropractors, but what's cool about what we do for a living is we talk to a lot of people in our day-to-Day treating patients, and, and we treat, we treat a lot of people that are, are successful and, and I'll pick their brains on it.

You know, I get someone that's a, a CEO of a, of a big company or a COO and I, I'll ask 'em like, yeah, what do you do to like, kind of. Recharge the batteries and I want to hear their thoughts on it. Um, but aside from vacation, what are some other things that you and your, your family do to just kind of [00:18:00] recharge the batteries a little bit?

Brennan Donahue, DC: No, I think, I mean, we're, we're kind of in the fitness world. I, that's been a part of, I, I was a collegiate athlete, soccer. And afterwards I, I had a phase of my life where I didn't exercise at all. And then so we came back to that. And so I do that also though has built my, uh, it's the weird combination of that friendship that you were just talking about with your patients is my group of friends have evolved because now I circle myself around other people that are high achievers, growth mindset people.

And it's not to, uh, to move on from my friends too quick, but. Put yourself in the room. Don't be the smartest person. And the 10 people you surround yourself with is kind of where you're going. So, uh, it's, I've leaned into that a lot on what me and my family do and who we surround ourselves with. And, um, we don't have all that much free time.

So how are we spending that free time is really important to us.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, absolutely. And you, you kind of mentioned there for a second. I'd love to workshop it a little bit [00:19:00] is, you know, sometimes not to use the word cut ties with people, but yeah. And your life as you, you know, as you move through, you know, I remember I had a ton of friends growing up.

I've just always been fortunate to have a lot of friends, but, um, you know, to this day, I'm not friends with it. Anybody free Florida state university for me. And it was because just the area I grew up in and, and, and the, uh, the friends I had growing up, like they just, they stuck, they stayed in the hometown.

I didn't get to college. A lot of them, they, they kind of were, uh, stuck for a lack of a better term. You know, did you run into that a little bit too?

Brennan Donahue, DC: Absolutely. And like, it's, I think we all probably have those friends that every time you see them, they tell you a story from like 5 or 10 years ago. And I'm like, dude, I have no idea what you're even talking about, but it's the difference between living in the past and looking at the future, you know, and I kind of have my sights headed north into the future instead of looking in that rear view mirror too often.

I mean, I, I use it, but. I don't, uh, stare out the back window all day long.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. And [00:20:00] that's kind of like what Dr. Asterix spoke about in Chicago, where you mentioned Dan Sullivan's quote about, you know, always make your future bigger than your past. And, and those are the types of people I want to be around, whether it's personally or professionally.

And so, uh, I still have a lot of friends for Florida State University. A lot of them are doing big things in, in different arenas. Uh, I've got a lot of friends from chiropractic school that are obviously doing awesome things. And it, as I grow professionally and colleagues, it's, I love. Getting in rooms like strategic coach or obviously our mastermind group and making friends with people that are, that have a bigger future in mind.

They have a vision and they're looking to, to achieve, but do it in a way that's serving their patients and also again, serving their, their family. And it's okay to sometimes, uh, cut ties with, and it doesn't need to be like. Aggressive, like, Oh, I'm never talking to you again, but it's just like, you know, you may text with him a little bit here and there, but you're not going to fall into the trap of where maybe you, we were in the past.

And I'm just going to say, you know what? I'm going to surround myself with people [00:21:00] that, that are like minded and see a bigger future for themselves.

Brennan Donahue, DC: And I think it organically happens. You know, I think just as if you, the listeners out there, if you're a chiropractic business owner, your, your friend's not in the profession, well, they will not understand, um, what you're doing, who you're talking to, the struggles that you go through.

And so I had to find a group of people that just, they get it. And, uh, And that's what's changed some of my friendships, which, uh, it's been a really, really positive thing.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. And it's cool to get, get into rooms sometimes where there's people that are, um, a little bit ahead of you just, you know, by years, right.

I know I say within our group, you and Kurt have. obviously connected a lot and it, it Kurt's a handful of years ahead as far as how many years he's practiced. And so I know there's been a lot of, uh, insights on that, but then on the other side of it's been cool is the, is the younger crew and the mastermind has, has shared a lot of, um, I think insights and energy and new fresh ideas [00:22:00] to, to those that are in the older cohort.

So it's been a pretty cool back and forth.

Brennan Donahue, DC: Yeah, I think in like managing that old, uh, inferiority complex, right? You know, I kind of it knowing that it's okay to be in those rooms and there is things that younger docs can offer and you don't need a massive practice to have great insight on business. Um, Acumen, right?

Dr. Kevin Christie: That's for sure. Right. Like, cause it's, there's a lot of ways to slice it. And some people are curating a practice where it's like, yeah, I want to be here. And then I'm going to carve out more time for myself. I'm going to carve out, um, a side thing that I'm going to do some, some of this, right. There's a lot of different ways to do it.

And I used to run into that, right. Go into strategic coach a lot. Cause there's some, some big hitters in there. And I'm like, oh, I'm just a chiropractor in this group, you know, and this, this gal's the CFO of a, you know, a hundred million dollar company. I'm like, what am I doing here? Uh, but you know, it's, it's just [00:23:00] ideas are ideas and vision or vision.

Uh, sometimes when you're in a room of entrepreneurs and you're the chiropractor and you got tech, tech people, it's just, we're hitting singles all day in healthcare, right? They're hitting, they're hitting like grand slams sometimes. Yeah.

But, um, so I want to hear, you know, I've kind of put you on a spot here a little bit, but, um, five years from now, five years from now, what's, what's the practice look like?

Will you just kind of give us a little bit overview of what your vision is looking like?

Brennan Donahue, DC: Yeah, and it's vision kind of changes with time, but it still stays within the realm. Right. And so I once thought I wanted multiple locations across St. Louis. And now I've decided that that's not in my vision. Um, 5 years from now, I'd love to be in a new space with the gym involved.

Um, I would love to have 3 to 4 chiropractors. As part of the team, I would love to only be treating Tuesday to Thursday so I can have a free day and then I have an admin [00:24:00] day, you know, uh, CEO day, whatever we want to term that where I'm thinking big, doing big things. Um, I think the space is the biggest thing that I will be working on sooner than 5 years for sure, which will allow for the team to continue to expand.

Um, I always want to have a preceptorship part of my practice. I love the mentor, the being a mentor to other people. Um, that way I can pass along knowledge that has been handed down to me. So that's kind of where our vision is.

Dr. Kevin Christie: I love that. I want to just touch on, because I think, um, sometimes people create a vision and then it changes and they kind of beat themselves up over it.

And I try to tell people it's like, no, the vision is definitely not, you know, carved in stone. It's, it's, it's a, it's a. You know, it's a North star for sure. And if you don't have a vision, that's when you're just all over the place and you get, you [00:25:00] fall for all the shiny objects. Um, but if you have a clear vision, you can start to make progress and work hard towards that.

And then what happens is as you're getting closer, it's kind of like, you know, when you're playing those video games and all of a sudden you get to a new level and certain things unlock. He's like, oh, I didn't know that was going to go. You know, it's the same thing. Like certain things unlock and you're like, okay, well, now that I'm here and I have my vision and I have accurate numbers and all, all the things I can make a new, accurate decision.

I wouldn't have been able to make that decision a year ago because I didn't have all the facts. And so it's okay to, to change course a little bit. And then obviously there's so many variables that, that do change. Right.

Brennan Donahue, DC: Uncontrollable variables at times. Right. Exactly. You control your controllables, but adapt when it's things that you can't control along the way.

So,

Dr. Kevin Christie: yeah, I mean, I, I bought my office space in 2013. I bought 3000 square feet more than I needed. I was in there with all the [00:26:00] insurances. We were only in business for three years and the trajectory that I was on with the corporate stuff, like, I was like, yeah, we're going to see 300 people a week in this place.

And then the insurance. You know, knocked our knees out. And so I went out of network and kind of went a little more boutique ish and higher cash rate. And so then I rented some space to a PT group instead, and like, just changed the vision a little bit, but it didn't really change. Like all that much is different.

Brennan Donahue, DC: Yeah. Yeah. You're, I mean, you're still filling your buckets just in a different way.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Yeah. And, and you gotta, you know, it's okay to make those changes, but the vision is gonna get you on that course. And, and actually, I think it also, it keeps you fascinated and motivated, right? When you get clear on a vision, it, it, it starts to get you into a place where.

You got a lot of positive momentum moving forward, which then actually creates opportunities that wouldn't have been there if you didn't have the vision and you weren't making that forward progress. And you were kind of in that malaise that happens for some chiropractors. [00:27:00]

Brennan Donahue, DC: And I think like people are afraid to block out time to think of that vision because they, they don't think it'll be productive, but it does.

It brings them out. It brings me out of that Malay space. Right? I mean, you get in the, it's just redundant at times. You're treating patients, treating patients. How many new patients can you see? How many patient visits can you get? Um, you know, it's, it's kind of the rat race a little bit. And so you have to step outside that hamster wheel every once in a while.

Um, to, you know, there, for sure. To get a clear path,

Dr. Kevin Christie: there was a, there was a, I forget which Facebook group or who, what, what, where, and what was posted, but it was, um, someone saying, you know, about 10 years in, and, you know, this is like the third time I've questioned being a chiropractor. Um, you know, and, and, and I've gotten to know you, like we've mentioned, and there's been times where it's been hard and it hasn't always been easy and there's frustrations and there's ceilings of complexity.

Uh, but I think what. What I've always respected about you is a level of perseverance to [00:28:00] get through that and overcome that and get to the other side of it. And I, and I just want our audience to know, like, it's not uncommon, right? Like I've had it many times and it's not uncommon to feel like, man, I'm up against a rock in a hard place here, or I'm having a hard time seeing that vision, or how do I do this for another 20 years?

I think there's a lot of things that creep into our mind and it's something that, uh, it's, it's very normal. Have you started to get a little more comfortable when you get there and understand like, okay, I know I can overcome this. I just need to find some resources with it. What's your, what's your Thought process on how you're working.

I

Brennan Donahue, DC: think there's, um, and I'm pretty open about this. And it's like, when I hit those phases now, I actually like, I remove alcohol from my, my diet and it's like, I'm ready to, we got to, I got to clean up my own mind and not be putting certain things in me that allow clarity for a period of time [00:29:00] to work out of that.

Right. And I know you've talked about it a lot and it's, uh, I read the gap in the game one time a year. I have like five books that I revisit each year. And, um, then I, I read a bunch of new books on top of that. But there's certain books that allow you to know when you're in the suck. And, you know, it's, it's one of those things that you learn to embrace it.

Cause you know, it's not going to last forever. You just got to find what works for you during that time of embrace. And, you know, previously I'd probably would have consumed more alcohol cause we're stressed and we're, we're freaking out, you know, and so. I've learned that like, Nope, we're going to hit pause for a short period of time.

We're going to come out of this and we're going to be better off on the back end of my fitness goes up and all those things. So,

Dr. Kevin Christie: yeah, I think you, didn't you also, cause I know you did the Ironman, you trained for that, or it was the marathon. Yep. Um, Didn't you even remove some like just training for a little bit just because you, you obviously were working hard and training hard.

Did you do that as well?

Brennan Donahue, DC: I did. Yeah. So after the Ironman, it was like, I had dedicated a lot of extra [00:30:00] time. So I was burning candles at both ends, early mornings, late nights, trying to train. And um, as the business was also growing at the same time, it was, I had to. It was consuming my energy rather than feeding to my energy.

And so I do an audit oftentimes on what, what is robbing me that once was feeding me that I have to alter the frequency of. So

Dr. Kevin Christie: I like that because most people don't think of it that way. Right. So obviously on one hand, the, the alcohol, as far as just, Hey, I'm going to clean it up for 30 days or whatever that, that makes sense for some folks.

But then on the other, they may not realize like sometimes the things that are, Well, obviously we would consider training for an Ironman healthy. And why would you remove something healthy? Uh, although I would argue that training for an Ironman is not necessarily all that healthy.

Brennan Donahue, DC: I definitely cross my sanity line on that one.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but no, sometimes it's even the healthy things that maybe you're, you're doing, you just kind of, you know, I need to take a step back from this right now. And, and I'm going to do that. It could be, for [00:31:00] instance, right? Like I get up at five, uh, Uh, a. m. Monday through Friday to get some work done, but I can feel I've been doing that shit for now, like a year and a half, but I'm getting close.

I was telling my wife the other day, I was like, you know what? I think I need to take a break from the 5. Soon and just get to like 6 a. m. Uh, you know, and so obviously most people say, yeah, getting about 5 a. m. is great. And I do go to bed early and all that, but like, It's kind of like, you know, I need to probably sleep in a little bit.

I need to kind of focus on my sleep a little bit more, uh, for a period of time. So sometimes it's just stepping back from things that do serve you.

Brennan Donahue, DC: I couldn't agree more.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Awesome. Awesome. Love it. You know, it's, uh, it's been really cool. And I wanted to just like, you know, um, going back, it was, I'm going to put you on a spot again.

We. Back in Chicago, we had the, uh, the wisdom session with a couple of our, uh, experienced docs have been practicing for a while and, and, uh, someone asked a question about like knowing what, you know, now, uh, you know, age 40, what would you [00:32:00] tell yourself, but, uh, you know, if you're speaking to your, your graduating self, or you're speaking to that younger chiropractor, that's listening right now, uh, what would you say to them to just realize like, look, Okay.

Um, you know, eight years in 10 years in whatever it is, uh, you know, it's going to be okay as long as you do X, Y, and Z. But what would you, what would you speak to that chiropractor? How would you, what would you tell them?

Brennan Donahue, DC: Yeah, I would be saying that like. I still think the sky's the limit, but you must remember you can only grow so quick, right?

And I, I wanted to grow quicker than I did. I had friends that grew quicker than I did that are still really good friends. But for me, it's that like staircase analogy, like you got to take one step before you, you can't skip five steps or else your systems will fall apart. Um, and so knowing that like, you can still dream big and it's okay if it takes a little bit longer to get there, just, Don't quit too soon or else you don't know what you'll never get there if you quit too soon, right?

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. And I think that does happen sometimes people can't see the [00:33:00] forest or the trees with that. And that's where you, you know, reaching out to folks and having, getting some help, uh, you know, to, to work through that is always helpful.

Brennan Donahue, DC: Yeah, yeah, and that this profession could be really fun to it. I don't think I realized that in the early years.

It was that there's some shitty years back there, but, um, it's, uh, it's definitely it's it's real. It's fun to watch everything you work towards start to. Blossom out a little bit. And you get to see that you get to have a little bit of fun and a little bit more freedom. And as long as you, you stay with it.

So,

Dr. Kevin Christie: yeah, it's hard, right. But usually hard things have rewards and what ends up happening, you know, it's that delayed gratification. And what's cool is if you do it right, uh, when you get to about 40, give or take, right. There's no set number. Uh, you know, however many years of practice you could start to carve out.

The practice for yourself. Right. And it's, uh, and that's where it gets fun. It's where you start to carve out and say, you know, yeah, I get to work Tuesday through Thursday and, uh, we're making the money that we want to make. And we're contributing to our [00:34:00] 401ks and we're, we bought a bill. Like you start to slowly build up this thing.

And then, you know, when you're 55, you look back, it's like, yeah, we've got a good life. Like we were fine with retirement. It wasn't easy, man. Those thirties were hard. Uh, my twenties, I didn't know what I was going to do, but, uh, you look back, it's like you kept on working towards that. That vision and it becomes an accumulation over time.

It's just not, you're not going to be that 27 year old tech entrepreneur that gets a zillion dollar buyout. Right? So, uh, you gotta just keep on working towards it and you will build something that is serving your family.

Brennan Donahue, DC: And I want to hit on that really quick, if you don't mind. I mean, when I first kind of joined the rooms and I heard people maxing out their 401ks and adding even more money to other, or other retirement buckets, you know, that, that topic can be overwhelming at times, but it was just one step that like, I think the first year I allocated, I think it was like 20 bucks a week or something.

I set up with my financial guy and it's like just auto draft. And now we've obviously, each year we reflect. How much should we increase that buy? How much should [00:35:00] we increase that buy? And so, um, it's, it's just one of those things that, that money will be spent elsewhere if you don't allocate it. And so I had to learn real quick that I needed to set up that, that auto draft, even if it's small.

And that starts accumulating really fast when you do it the right way.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Well, you're right. And it's been interesting as, as a business owner, 'cause I have a, like I offer a 401k to my, my team and all that. And so I've had a handful of employees with a 401k and, and, and some aren't, aren't here anymore, but.

They still have the money, the 401k, and I have access to it since I'm the, whatever the trustee of the, of the 401k. So I see whose accounts have, you know, kind of what in it. And I got a, you know, a past employee where it's like, wow, like just a little bit was going in for a while, but now they got over 25, 000 in there and they're not, it don't even work for me anymore.

You know? Um, and it just keeps on compounding because of the, you know, stock market has been good and all that. And, um, Yeah. It's amazing. If you start doing stuff like that, uh, down the road, it, it, it turns into a million bucks when you're 60 years [00:36:00] old. That's

Brennan Donahue, DC: right. Hopefully. Yeah, it will. It will. So,

Dr. Kevin Christie: Hey, well, Brendan, this was great, man.

I love having you on here and just kind of talking shop. And I think, uh, you know, my, my goal having you on here was to just show like. You know, in, in within eight years, eight years may feel like a long time to you. I noticed that hasn't been, uh, you know, the, with COVID and all the things, right. It's been a lot, but, uh, in a short period of time, you can really build something really cool if you keep on working hard and overcoming those obstacles.

So I give you a lot of credit for doing that.

Brennan Donahue, DC: That's right. Thanks, Kev, for having me on. And, uh, you know, it's just exciting. It's one of those, I say it all the time. It's like, we're just getting started. Like it's going to be fun. And, and I look forward for the future for everybody. That's part of the group and things like that.

So

Dr. Kevin Christie: absolutely. Thanks for your time today, Brandon.

Brennan Donahue, DC: Thanks, Kevin.