EPISODE 384: Hiring Strategies for the Chiropractic Practice with Amanda Campana

Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

Dr. Kevin Christie: [00:00:00] Hey docs, welcome to another episode of modern chiropractic mastery. This is your host, Dr. Kevin Christie. And today I have Amanda Campana on the interview for you from VisionSpark. And she was kind enough to co present to our mastermind group in Nashville, Tennessee, and they specialize in hiring. And we're going to dive into a lot of the nuances of hiring.

And I'm actually going to have a little bit of a call to action to reach out to me. If you feel like you have an associate. Um, that is kind of a builder. I think, uh, there's associates that we could categorize if, if they're effective. Uh, let's take the non effective associates out of the equation, but the ones that you find effective, uh, there's, there's three types and I've heard this from different circles.

You know, one, you've got the sustainers, you know, you've got a really busy practice. You just need a doctor to come in and, and doctor and they, they do a good job at that. Um, not expecting them to necessarily, uh, be the next category would be a builder, like someone [00:01:00] that's going to help build a practice.

And that might be through different initiatives, through just referrals, things of that nature. Um, and then the third is your hunter. Those are the ones that you've seen chiropractic practices where they, they're, they're, they're They expect to hire an associate to go out and actually bring in their own new patients, uh, only or mostly, and they're highly compensated on that.

And there's nothing wrong with that. And I just think there's a select percentage of associates that are hunters. I think a good percentage of them are builders and I think a good percentage of them are sustainers. And again, there's nothing wrong, uh, with that. Um, if you're hiring an associate or you are an associate, I think there needs to be some understanding around that and be congruent with it.

Right? If you're, if you're looking for a builder, hire a builder. If you're looking for a sustainer, hire a sustainer. If you, if you need a hunter, hire a hunter. If you hire a hunter, you better have some good growth potential for them because they may. hunt [00:02:00] really well and realize they're going to do it on their own pretty quickly.

So a lot of things to consider. And we dive into a lot of the variables of hiring. And my call to action is, is that they did a tip assessment, which she's going to describe in this interview, uh, for our decision makers or our office managers. I shouldn't say full decision makers, but office managers, patient Practice managers, things like that, um, for our mastermind members.

And they had them taken the hour assessment and mine did as well. And then they went over the results and provide us a full report with, it was a really cool way of, of hiring and. Um, they don't currently have one, uh, for hiring chiropractic associates. So MCM and the mastermind is actually paying and working with them to try to develop an assessment, a tip assessment specific, uh, for, uh, hiring a chiropractor.

And we're actually going to use the middle one. They're the builder. We're looking for, you know, 10 associates that we would consider builders. I would love for [00:03:00] them to have at least been in your practice for at least six months, more than a year would be even better. Um, and you need to answer the question, knowing what I know now about them, what I still hire them, right?

And if it's, if they've been with you for two years and you say, yes, knowing what I know now, I would hire them. Um, if that, if you can say yes to that and they fit the other parameters, reach out to me, Kevin at modern dash hockey. com. I'd love to chat with you. Maybe they could be one of the 10 that we're looking to take this assessment and a couple other things so that we can build a tip assessment for hiring a chiropractic associate.

So that's my call to action for you. Check that out. Um, lastly, uh, before we dive into the interview, uh, we've got. A lot more details about our different coaching and marketing options for you. Go to modern chiropractic marketing. com. There's a coaching tab there and check that out. Um, and you can have some details of what we do, whether it's group coaching, one on one coaching, marketing done for you, a little bit of both.

Uh, we've got, uh, 47 clinics underneath our programs now and they're [00:04:00] growing. Many of them have been with us for a while and it's cultivated quite an ecosystem within our, uh, with our group of chiropractors to help each other out, let's help them hold accountable and have some growth initiatives going.

So check it out at modern chiropractic marketing. com. All right, without further ado, here's my interview with Amanda Campana.

All right. Welcome to the show, Amanda. I really appreciate your time today. I'm excited to talk about a fresh topic on this podcast. And before we do tell us a little bit about yourself personally, professionally, and then we'll go from there. Yeah. Kevin, thank you very much for the invitation. I'm excited to be here and to Have the opportunity to speak with your audience and, uh, hopefully provide some, uh, you know, helpful information to them.

Amanda Campana: Um, so my name is Amanda Campana. I am a senior search consultant for Vision Spark, which is a, uh, executive search firm. We are based out of Columbus, Ohio. [00:05:00] And, uh, we've been in business just over 10 years. Um, typically we focus on the number two leader, uh, in our searches, but we do, you know, we run the gambit so we can do anywhere from entry level all the way up to your top, uh, senior, you know, executive team members as well.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. And, uh, one of the things I know you guys do a lot with is kind of that, um, you, you, you got the visionary and the integrator is a big thing that you're, um, working with visionaries on providing for their business. Right? Yes. Yes. That's really our, our niche, if you will. Um, but like I said, we do searches, you know, for sales professionals, marketing, finance, anything that you need.

Yeah. And obviously we had you, uh, and Alec Broadfoot, who, um, is the founder of vision spark and I know him through, uh, through, uh, strategic coach, and that's how we first connected, which is, uh, always nice. And bringing some experts from [00:06:00] strategic coach into our chiropractic world. And you, uh, both came to our Nashville East mastermind group, uh, back in April and, and talked about this.

And it was really, uh, It was really eye opening. One of the things we're going to talk about is this particular assessment that you, uh, utilize there and how it can be tailored, uh, to the position. And so obviously you do a lot with integrators, but what we did, which was cool is we did it for kind of our.

Um, you know, whether it was your office manager, practice manager, or maybe it's your spouse that really kind of runs the office, maybe there's 2 doctors and 1 really does more of the, uh, running the office, just your key decision maker. Uh, you were, you guys were kind enough to have all of us members have our key decision maker, uh, in the practice that wasn't themselves, right?

Take, take this detailed assessment and then you provide us with a really detailed report. During the day of our mastermind, and we kind of dove [00:07:00] into that, which was which was really cool to see. So, um, I wanted to lay that kind of framework around that and tell us about this assessment, assessment, the name, some of the background of it, why it's important.

Really helpful when picking the right people because we just hear so much about I can't find good people. I can't keep good people. It's a, it's a common complaint. We're trying to solve that. Yeah, absolutely. Well, the, the assessment tool that we use. I mean, 1st of all, I think it's important to address. Do you even have.

Amanda Campana: A hiring process. I think that's usually kind of the root of the issue. You know, when we talk with business owners with visionaries entrepreneurs, that's usually the starting point is, do you even have a process that's repeatable that that is followed by all. Um, to make sure that, you know, you're going through each step of the process, uh, with each candidate, you know, a lot of times you get into a situation where you're like, oh, gosh, I needed somebody yesterday.

And then it [00:08:00] becomes, you know, this, uh, immediate, you know, need, and you start to make knee jerk or gut reactions, and that can really put you in a bad spot. Um, because the cost of of a bad hire, it's more than just how much you paid them. But it's, you know, all of the residual. Um, kind of costs that go into it is alongside that.

So we utilize the tip assessment that stands for the talent impact profile assessment. Um, this tool is different from anything else that you've seen any other. Um, assessment tool on the market, because we measure 16 different mental aptitudes and personality dimensions. Um, so this isn't, you know, a lot of times we get the results from an assessment that we took it take us.

Took us 10 minutes to take it and we've got 4 to maybe 10. Uh, results that that we can look at, um, but the, the talent impact [00:09:00] profile assessment really looks at your, your core behaviors. So it's really giving you. A much more well rounded picture of a candidate versus just, you know, knowing, um, 4 to 8, you know, different aspects about them.

So it's a much more robust assessment, which is why we utilize it in our process. Yeah, definitely. And it's, uh, you know, you mentioned a higher having a hiring process and I think a lot of people think of hiring and just like, Oh, I got to make sure I have the right questions or, you know, do I use indeed or do I use whatever, right?

Dr. Kevin Christie: Um, Craigslist, no, I'm just kidding. Um, and, and they think, uh, they think of that. And then I think another flaw, especially I see with chiropractors is they're very reactive with hiring and not proactive. And one of the things I try to. I try to get chiropractors understand is to have some redundancies in the practice because a lot of times we're like micro businesses are very small.

Some people are just one person, some it's three or four. And so you [00:10:00] don't, you may, you don't have 25 or 50 employees where there can be some natural redundancies, but a practice should have some redundancy so that you have a little bit of. Grace period, if someone puts in their two week notice to get the right person in and not rush it.

I think that's a big problem. And then when you're, you know, let's kind of put aside for the sake of this particular episode, the front desk. I don't know. If you would have the front desk take this assessment or not, because, uh, Hey, I'm not sure if there is a tip, uh, one that's specific for that, uh, be, um, it can be like getting a front desk.

It's kind of like, uh, online dating now where, um, you know, they're, it's like finding a needle in a haystack and then they're, they've got 43 different, uh, opportunities. And so you've got to kind of get them in and, and, and, and hire them, um, obviously not too fast, but. You know, hiring decision makers, people that you're really wanting to invest in, I think [00:11:00] could be, could be great.

And what I liked about this assessment was, yeah, you get the personality side of things and you get the aptitude side of things. Um, I remember I, I once had an employee where, um. There, the patient put it in a way that was kind, but you could see, you could say he's like, you know, he just, uh, his cup gets filled up a little bit too quickly.

Um, and, and that's what it was like, there just wasn't a big capacity there and you could train them and educate them and coach them to your blue in the face. But it just. Wasn't capacity there versus I've had people in the same position where it's like, wow, it's like there's endless capacity. It's like, this is amazing.

And that's some of the things that the, the tip assessment does provide, which I really liked about it. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, even even if you don't use the tip assessment in your hiring process, you can still use it as a team health tool as well. So, when you talk about, you know, that that front desk person, it still would be a [00:12:00] valuable piece of information just to know your team at a deeper level and to know how to interact with them to understand better.

Amanda Campana: How they receive feedback so that you can give, you know, better feedback. If you're talking to that person, who's, you know, got a, uh, if they're at their capacity, you know, how do you talk and approach them? That's going to be in such a way that they'll receive it. I'm glad you brought that up. Yes. Cause you might notice on there where it's like, okay, they, they're getting, there's a lot of cool points on that report we got.

Dr. Kevin Christie: And you might notice that, yeah, you know, maybe they're. They operate like this and you have someone else on your team that operates that could kind of fill that void a little bit. And so you're building a team around that. Exactly. I mean, you know, it, it all comes down to not only just the mental aptitudes, but the personality dimensions as well.

Amanda Campana: So, for example, you know, if you've got. So we'll use that office manager, um, or front desk role. If you've got someone who is in a highly visible role, that's going to need [00:13:00] to be on the phone. That's going to need to be interacting with, uh, your, your patients, um, on a regular basis. 1 category that you're going to need to focus on is, is communication.

Um, because we look at, you know, the, the way that the. Assessment is measured is on a stay 9 scale. So it's, it's on a 1 to 9 scale, but again, 1 is not always bad. 9 is not always great. You know, this is not a 1 to 10, kind of a 10 being the highest. It's not a great, um, really you're looking at where does someone fall on the spectrum to understand how to interact with them better.

So, using that example of, you know, let's say a receptionist or a front desk, um, employee. When you look at their communication, you're probably going to want them to be a little bit on the higher side of communication. And by higher, I mean, more like a 6, 7, 8, because once you get into those 8s and 9s, the [00:14:00] concern is, are they going to be a good listener versus, you know, someone who's a 1, that's going to show up as someone who's a little bit more reserved.

More a little bit, you know, introverted, um, and you, you need to be able to find that right mix for that specific position. And the cool thing about the tip assessment is, and I'm sure we'll get to this in a little bit, but, um, we can create. Uh, role specific templates that will identify what are the ideal areas for each of the 16 categories for the role that you're specifically looking for.

So, we, we did have a template for this office manager. Um, position that we were able to identify where those areas that are going to be the most successful of a person scoring within. So, I think it's really great that the tip. It can be customized, uh, to your specific organization to your specific role.

Uh, the good thing [00:15:00] is you mentioned earlier interview questions and, you know, how important people put on, you know, I've got to have the right interview questions. Another benefit of the tip assessment is that. Within the report that you're given with the results of the candidate or whoever's taking it at the end of the report, it will identify any outliers and outliers are, uh, scores that are falling outside of the success template.

And it will give you several different interview questions. That way, it gives you the opportunity to know, okay, this is an area I need to dig a little deeper in a final interview to understand, you know, this candidate even more. So so it gives you an interview questions that you can take into an interview setting to be prepared for that.

Dr. Kevin Christie: No, that's cool. And I want to kind of touch a little bit more on, you mentioned communication. And I think we all can relate to that where there's like a fine line of communication where it's like, yeah, I want someone that's [00:16:00] precocious and can talk and, you know, but then we've all met that person like at the works, the front desk or whatever, where it's just like, okay, we got to like, you know, Stop talking sometimes and do some work and listen and things like that.

So I definitely can resonate with that. What are some others on that personality? Just a few other things that are measured. On that, so people can get an idea. Well, 1 of the, you know, 1 of the categories is mental aptitudes. So we mentioned mental aptitudes, personality dimensions when you're looking at mental aptitudes, we're looking at, um, 1 of the categories is learning style.

Amanda Campana: So you want to talk about somebody who's got that, you know, kind of capacity ceiling. This is an area that would kind of identify that in an individual. So, um, It's problem solving tendencies, decision making speed. When you think about someone's learning style, are they more of a hands on learner where they enjoy more repetitive [00:17:00] tasks, or are they more of a conceptual learner?

So, that's something that, you know, the assessment will identify. Um, we look at things like marketplace awareness. Um, this refers to someone's observation skills, their retention of information. So, if you think about. Um, someone who is. Very knowledgeable about current events that would be displayed in that in that category.

Another really important, uh, mental aptitude is numerical accuracy. And this is measuring a person's attention to detail when dealing with. Numbers and symbols. So they're they're rapid visual scanning ability. This is so extremely important, even with a position that's like a front desk, uh, you know, employee, because they're going to be scheduling, they're going to be looking at phone numbers.

They're going to be looking at very detailed information. You want to make sure that it's accurate. So that category is important. You know. [00:18:00] If you're a high level CFO, or if you're an executive assistant, um, you know, dealing with multiple schedules and trying to make sure that you're on top of everything because it's that that high level attention to detail some examples of other personality dimensions that we look at.

We mentioned communication. A big 1 is process orientation. And this is someone's ability to adapt to change their reliability and consistency, their approach to processes and adhering to them. So, are they a role follower on 1 end of the spectrum? Or are they someone who might tend to bend the rules a little bit on the other side of the spectrum?

There is also assertiveness. That's a good 1 to talk about. This measures a person's desired level of authority. Uh, their need for control and their attitude towards confrontation. So you want to make sure that you're, you know, paying attention to that level of [00:19:00] assertiveness, especially when you're dealing with patients, you know, patients who are potentially in pain, who are uncomfortable, you know, you want to make sure that you're speaking, uh, in such a way that.

Is sensitive to, you know, what they're experiencing, um, kind of akin to that is audience sensitivity, uh, which is measuring a person's. Attitude towards criticism, uh, their level of empathy, uh, their ability to read the audience. So, again, that's going to be. A big one to consider. Yeah. And I think it's important, right?

Dr. Kevin Christie: Like if you're hiring a front desk person versus a billing person, it can be two different things, right? Like you might be able to hire that introvert that's really good with numbers and a few other things. And that's going to, you know, what you're going to probably look for on billing or office manager that is handling some of the financials and paying bills and that type of stuff.

Uh, yeah. Right. So it's, uh, you know, depending on that role, I think, uh, as a [00:20:00] chiropractic office, you'll see definitely front desk, you'll see office manager, you'll see billing people. Sometimes you will see, um, uh, person that acts like a kind of a fractional CFO or bookkeeper, uh, in, in the office, certain things of that nature.

Um, I guess you could, I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but like, if you were, you know, You know, um, hiring a bookkeeper, right? Not full time, but just, you know, outsourcing that. Could you have them take a, take this assessment? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, Alec always brings up a story. I forget the client, but it was, um, several years ago, uh, one of his clients here in Ohio, uh, who they were hiring a controller and it was a, it was a full time position, but to your point, yes, you can give anyone this assessment.

Amanda Campana: This individual was hiring for a controller. He had 3 really good candidates that he was really excited about. And he said, all right, Alec, go give him this assessment. Let's see what it [00:21:00] looks like every or each of the 3 had significantly low numerical accuracy numbers and Alex said, don't do it. Don't do it.

We need to go back to the drawing board. Unfortunately, this business owner, he decided to hire 1 of those candidates anyway. 6 months later, he was on the phone with Alec because that person had made about a half a million dollars in mistakes within that 6 months. So I would highly, highly recommend anyone, you know, contract or otherwise it would be appropriate to take this assessment.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, absolutely.

, I left that weekend in Nashville and I was kind of like, you know, I would say one of the massive problems we have in our profession. We definitely have issues with the overall hiring. Um, but is, is this disconnected? between owner chiropractor and associate chiropractor.

Um, and, and, and there's like a mismatch happening there quite a bit. [00:22:00] And sometimes it's nobody's fault. It's not the owner's fault. It's not the associates fault. They're just, um, wasn't clarity. There wasn't, uh, you know, a process of really finding the right person. I know you and I were on the phone talking about it.

And, uh, there's, there's like three different. Categories. I've heard some of this from I want to give credit to Alan Minor. I think he talked about it. Um, and I could be getting it wrong, but I think you'll get the essence of it. At least the audience, um, will understand it as far as, uh, what they see with chiropractors.

You're going to have the, um, you're gonna have the sustainer. Right? Like the chiropractor comes in and they're going to help sustain the patient base. They're, they're kind of a clock in clock out. They just want to be a clinician. Um, you know, they just want a doctor and that's fine. Uh, the 2nd, 1, you're going to have as a builder.

Um, you know, they're going to come in, uh, they're going to turn 1 new patient into 10. Right. Like they're going to, they're going to drive referrals. They're [00:23:00] good clinically, good personality. Um, and then you're going to have the hunter, right? And, and a lot of the practice owners, the one that have built a very good thriving practice.

A lot of times they were the hunters in a lot of ways. And that's the one that's going to go out there and they're bringing in patients. Like they're going to events, they're doing things and they're, they're, they're hunting and getting them in. And so, uh, I think a lot of times the owner chiropractor is looking for.

A hunter, but they hire a sustainer or they're looking for a sustainer and they, you know, hunter comes in and it's like they butt heads. There's a lot of things that's going on, on with that. And so you mentioned earlier is that you do have the ability to develop. The tip assessment that is kind of tailored, uh, to a position.

And I know that you and I have talked about that because right now there is nothing, um, that we've done with the tip as far as hiring a chiropractor. Um, so can you speak to that a little bit? [00:24:00] Yeah, we can absolutely develop, um, you know, we talked about the, the success template. For the role and in this regard, you know, you may we may consider creating 3, you know, 1 for each of those, uh, different types of associate chiropractors that you just mentioned.

Amanda Campana: Um, 1 of the categories that we look at within the personality dimensions is motivation. And it's not necessarily how motivated somebody is, but what are they motivated by? Are they more. Uh, motivated by stability, having that regular paycheck, having that regular schedule, or are they more motivated by incentives?

And that would clearly help to identify, you know, which 1 are we, what is this candidate showing up as, um, to, to help, you know, okay, I know I'm looking for a hunter, but. This person is showing up on more of the stable side, so that may not be the right fit for you. But yeah, we can create customized templates for any organization for any [00:25:00] position.

There's a discovery process that goes along with that. A lot of conversation and making sure that VisionSpark that we understand what the need is and what the desired outcomes are. But yeah, that's that's something that we do. Yeah. And that's what, um, obviously we're going to work together doing that.

Dr. Kevin Christie: And I know we got, we're trying to get a sample size of, and I'm going to put the call to action out there now for the audience, um, is that we're looking for like 10 really good associates where you're like, you know what? Uh, I guess you could answer that question. Let's, let's say that person has been with you for a year, at least the associate, and you can answer the question, knowing what I know now, would I hire this person again?

If you can answer yes to that, then that person. Person probably would be a good candidate to to take this assessment because I believe we're going to try to get tend to take it aggregate the data and then because I correct me. I'm wrong. The assessments the same, right? It's just the parameters like what we're [00:26:00] looking for as far as parameters of response would change between those three types of chiropractors.

Is that right? Exactly. Yes. All of the questions are the same. Everyone is taking the same assessment. Um, but it would be us determining where did those success templates, you know, where did those need to fall based on what you're looking for now again? Correct me if I'm wrong. And I probably am. But, um, like, let's say if we, we, uh, We asked for 10 builders, right?

I want, I want 10 builder associates to take this assessment and see what this looks like. Cause I would think if you ask most people, um, you know, there's no right or wrong, but I would say probably more chiropractor owners are looking for builders. There's definitely some that need clinicians, like just come in and do your job of Being a doctor like there's definitely people looking for that.

Um, and there definitely are a lot of chiropractors that sometimes they think they're looking for a hunter, but they don't really like, um, but I think [00:27:00] a lot of stable practices that can afford can can appropriately afford to hire a chiropractor and not pigeonhole it are probably looking for that builder.

Um, I think it's kind of a sweet spot for a lot of practices, uh, would it make sense to, to get 10 builders to take this, see what that looks like? Um, could you then utilize that? And if someone was looking for a sustainer, they could kind of cross check it with that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Because once we have that baseline for the builder, I would say that we could do it on on either one, the hunter or the sustainer as well.

Amanda Campana: Because we can take a look at some of the some of the key dimensions and identify. Okay. Well, you know, what do we need in a sustainer? Okay. So this category needs to go this way. So on and so forth, and I think we would definitely be able to develop. Based around that. Yeah, yeah, because I think, um, you [00:28:00] know, like if you're, if you get someone that's like super introverted and that's like their communication style and all that, they're, they're not going to be a hunter again, there's always going to be outliers to that.

Dr. Kevin Christie: But most of your super introverts are probably gonna be phenomenal clinicians and, uh, do well in that setting. And they could be a builder because maybe they are really good at. Clinically, and they do have good bedside manner and they, they can communicate well in one on one interactions, but they're not necessarily going to be the person that's going to go out and give a, a talk to 45 people and develop all that, right?

Amanda Campana: They're not going to be at the farmer's market, uh, you know, under a tent saying, Hey, come to my practice. Yeah, exactly. And so that's where I, I, I, 'cause I just, uh, and I know I'm not the only one out there trying to help solve this, but the more the merrier, um, is, is trying to make sure that we can really get owners cl clear on the type of doctor that they're looking to hire, and then also the [00:29:00] associates, um, not being.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Um, not getting jobs that weren't best for them. Right. And cause there was a mismatch on that. And then, uh, honestly, I mean, this goes across the board or there is the, um, cognitive part of this. And the fact of the matter is, is like, you, you do, like if you're hiring a chiropractor, you do need someone that is, uh, Cognitively capable and we would be surprised like people do get through chiropractic school and their boards and they're really not there where they need to be.

And again, depending on your clinic too, because we have some chiropractors out there, um, that it's super simple. It's just adjustment. Whatever come in, get adjusted. They're good with that mechanically. But then we have some clinics where they're, they're really diving into certain complicated things like chiropractic neurology, or they're doing certain things like McKenzie technique and DNS and this, and you got to have a lot of hats and you got complicated cases.

Like, there's right now. I'm kind of talking to the audience. There's some coverage out there that. [00:30:00] Um, it's very straightforward. It's wellness based. It's not that, you know, and then we've got others where it's like, they're dealing with neurogenic degenerative conditions. They're dealing with chronic pain.

That's complicated. And so the chiropractor you're looking for is probably going to have to have a high capacity for that. Yes. Yeah, I would agree. And that's definitely something that I think would come out in these results. I mean, at the end of the day, the results help you learn even more about the candidate that's sitting across the table from you.

Amanda Campana: And that's really what we want to help you in terms of being able to make a more data driven and a more confident hiring decision. Yeah. And it's, I think it's exciting because you know, there's, There's 2 sides of our profession. There's, there's, there's the evidence based chiropractors, which we fall into.

Dr. Kevin Christie: And then there's the other side of the profession. That's really just, um, has a different school of thought. We'll kind of leave it at that. Um, and then within that evidence based [00:31:00] chiropractors, um, there's, you know, owner doctors are looking for certain types of chiropractors that can stand the test of clinical accident excellency.

But then also, um, Help build a patient base. And sometimes I can go hand in hand and sometimes it doesn't. And I think this could really help, uh, solve this problem. Yeah, I agree. So I, you know, this has been, this has been awesome. Um, if, if, uh, our audience is out there looking to find out more about vision spark, more about the tip assessment, uh, where can they, where can they find more information?

Amanda Campana: Uh, vision spark search dot com is our website. Um, so that's the best way to get in touch with us. There's a contact us, uh, button on the homepage. Um, that will, uh, you can leave your information there and then someone can reach out to you about services that you're interested in. Perfect. [00:32:00] And then, uh, my own is kind of, they know kind of how to reach out to me, whether it's Facebook messenger or email Kevin at modern dash jockey.

Dr. Kevin Christie: com. If you feel like you have a builder associate, or you think maybe you're confused as if they are or not, but you think they could be good and they've been with you for at least a year. Uh, and you can answer that question. Knowing what I know now, I would really want to hire them again. Uh, we, we are trying to get 10.

We do have a handful. Um, we're trying to get 10 to take this assessment. It does take a little bit of time is about an hour. to take the assessment about an hour, hour and 15 minutes. You need to be, you know, in an environment where you're, um, outside of distractions. So no kids in the room, no barking dogs, you know, do your best.

Amanda Campana: Um, and there are some other parameters, but we give you that information ahead of time just to make sure that you're comfortable. You're showing up as your authentic self and that you're doing the best you can. Yeah, absolutely. And so that way, uh, we can start at MCM here kind of working on this for you.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Uh, the, the, the [00:33:00] mastermind group is, is footing the bill for this as a collective. I mean, I, I kind of allot some of our, uh, revenues from the mastermind for these types of projects to help better the profession. And so, uh, The mastermind was excited about that. And some of the members are, um, do have associates that they're having to take this.

So that's pretty cool. And, um, last year, last year we did a 5, 000, uh, kind of donation to one chiropractor. It was like a whole application process. That was fun. That was. Quote unquote sponsored by the mastermind. Uh, this year we're, we're doing this cause it's going to be an investment to, to make this happen, but we're excited to do it.

And so reach out to me again, Kevin at modern desk, jockey. com. If you want your associate to be part of that, uh, reach out to the information. I'll put in the show notes to reach out to Amanda's team. If you want to contact them directly, uh, cause you want to maybe have, start hiring an office manager, a front desk, a billing person.

Whatever. Uh, some of you might, we have some folks that have really big practices and they frankly need an integrator, [00:34:00] uh, and they could reach out to you for that as well. So I really appreciate your time, Amanda. Is there anything I didn't ask you, uh, that would help our audience? Hmm. That's a good question.

Amanda Campana: That's such a loaded question. I know, I know there must not be. I think I asked all the questions. I think you did too. I mean, it really, you know, the, the important thing is that you have a process and you have an assessment so that you can make those data driven decisions. Once you have that, then you've got the confidence, you know, to make your hiring decisions.

And I think you'll be in a good spot. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. And we'll, we'll be talking soon. Thank you.