EPISODE 383: Tax Strategies for the Small Business Owner with Barbara Schreihans

Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

Dr. Kevin Christie: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of Modern Chiropractic Mastery. This is your host, Dr. Kevin Christie. And today I'm excited to bring on a tax strategist. And that is Barbara Schreihans. And the tax strategist is different than your accountant, but a tax strategist like Barbara could Um, you know, I, I've, I've mentioned it before, but there's, sometimes there's accounting that's uh, kind of postmortem, uh, they just do, do your taxes, uh, look at what you, your QuickBooks says, and they, they do your returns for you.

Uh, but then there's also people that are, uh, more into the tax strategy and they develop a plan for you ahead of time to get ahead of it. And one of the benefits of being a small business owner is the fact that there are tax incentives tax advantages to it. You definitely get taxed more than you probably should.

And things like employer taxes frustrate the heck out of me. The fact that, you know, I'm providing a job and, you know, for every say, you know, [00:01:00] 1, 000, you write a payroll check, you get taxed 10%, give or take, depending on what state you're in. Or, uh, you know, you're, so you're getting taxed for providing jobs.

So you're, you're paying your, Fair share. Uh, but, uh, you know, there are ways as a small business owner, you can, uh, try to, uh, legally and ethically optimize your tax strategy. That's what we're going to talk about today. We're excited to have Barbara on our, uh, uh, zoom training for our mastermind group, uh, for both of our groups.

We always supplement. The in person with three, uh, Zoom trainings throughout the year this year in 2024, uh, was all about, uh, the financials of things. And then in 2025, we're gonna have a different theme and topic around our Zoom trainings, but Barbara was kind enough to present, uh, an eye opening presentation to us.

And she brings great information, uh, to this episode as well. Speaking of, you know, trying to optimize things, you [00:02:00] know, you should. at least consider coaching. And one of the things I'll, I'll say about our program at modern chiropractic marketing, you can go to modern chiropractic marketing. com is that we, we have a framework, right?

We don't have a cookie cutter approach, but we're going to try to make you very, very effective as a business owner and help you grow and develop business and marketing and communications and financial strategies. That's a framework, not pigeonhole you into something that you don't want to be. And one of the things I'm proud about with the members we have, and we do have quite a few now, uh, I mean, we have ART instructors, we have diplomates, we have chiropractors that are.

Team physicians for, for different professional team sports. Uh, we have industry transformers. We have people that teach other chiropractors things, right? We, we have a very, uh, clinically skilled coaching [00:03:00] membership. And, uh, I will, I can't say that about all coaching memberships. And we're very, very, uh, skilled clinically as far as our membership, but then they want to take that next step, uh, from a business perspective.

So if that's you. Uh, check us out at modernchiropracticmarketing. com. There's a coaching tab. Uh, we've kind of freshened that up and a lot of the information is right there and then you can submit a form and reach out to me directly and I'll reach back out to you directly and we can set up a consultation call to discuss what that looks like for your practice.

All right. Without further ado, here is my interview with Barbara Schreihans and we are going to dive into tax strategy.

All right. Welcome to the show, Barbara. I really appreciate your time today. It was exciting to meet you on our zoom call. We did for our mastermind members. You brought a ton of valuable information. I'm excited to share that with our, uh, chiropractic industry here, but before we do tell us a little bit about yourself personally, professionally, and then [00:04:00] we'll, we'll dive into it.

Barbara Schreihans: Yeah, I'm Barbara founder of your tax coach and we help business owners save money in taxes in my previous life. I was in big public accounting and I just hated that we weren't actually helping our business owner clients save money in taxes. So I kind of created my, my own company. Um, I'm married, love to travel.

We're always like nomadic. So we're always in a different, in a different place and love coffee and Pilates, and that's a little bit about me. Love it. Yeah. I was trying to figure out the time zone. Cause I think the last time we spoke, it was a different time zone you're in. And now it's a, uh, maybe Pacific time zone.

Dr. Kevin Christie: That's a pretty cool ability to travel around. And, um, one of the things I wanted to, to dive in right at the gates and you kind of touched on it is that. Um, obviously there's traditional accounting and a lot of times I've, I've phrased it as kind of post mortem accounting, right? So you, you got your accounting done and [00:05:00] you, you did all your stuff and Callen's going to do your taxes for you.

Uh, you have to, and, and file all of that. Uh, and then there's a tax strategist, uh, that's, that's going to, um, help you develop a strategy also could do the traditional accounting at the end of it. But, um, could you give us a little bit of a, a differentiation there What you do and then say that that post mortem accounting.

Barbara Schreihans: Yeah. So your typical accountants are just going to put the numbers you give them on a form, right? Your tax return that's due by April 15th or October 15th. If you extend, they're not really looking to change any of the numbers. We are looking at your numbers ahead of time and saying, what can we change?

What strategies can we implement to either lower your profit, increase your tax credits so that you're taxed less and have more money in your pocket. So for us, we're very. [00:06:00] Proactive, right? We have to meet with you throughout the year. We want everything done prior to 1231, whereas traditional accounting, they're very reactive.

They're just after, you know, the new year, they're filing your taxes. There's not a whole lot they can do. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's the key, um, as a, especially as a small business owner, uh, you know, there's a lot of variables and I know it's hard, you know, I'm a small business owner. We've got, we've got two businesses.

Dr. Kevin Christie: We know it's a struggle. We know we, um, you know, costs of running a business is going up and cost of employees is going up. Uh, taxes aren't fun. It's I've always like one of the taxes that bothers me the most, and I pay a lot of different taxes, but the one that bothers me the most is the employer's tax.

Right? Like. Uh, and I know obviously you know this, but for audience and some, we have some chiropractors that aren't business owners yet, but someday will be is like, you know, writing that say thousand dollar payroll check to someone. And then the government actually taxes me on that for social security, [00:07:00] Medicare matching.

And like, I'm like, you're taxing me for providing a job and paying someone. Uh, that one really just gets me, but. Um, you know, we're, we're getting attacked from all angles as a small business owner and, and, and taxes are definitely one of that, but what's really cool about being a small business owner and some of the things that, uh, you help out with is realizing there's actually a lot of benefits that, uh, if, if done right can even outweigh the negatives of the taxation and costs of, of, of running a business.

Barbara Schreihans: Yeah, totally. I mean, I think it's easy to put taxes down and say, you know, we pay too much in taxes and And all of that, but the reality of being a business owner, is that what that's when it becomes kind of fun and it can be more like gamified of, okay, how little can I pay in taxes? Whereas when you're W2, the taxes are just taken from you.

In the beginning, like before you even get your [00:08:00] check directly deposited into your account, the taxes are taken. Whereas when you're a business owner, you get all the money into your account. You don't have to pay the taxes yet. You can spend your money on expenses. You can implement, you know, things that benefit yourself like a retirement plan or benefits and things like that to lower your profit.

And then you're not taxed until. Later on, and you're only taxed on the profit. So there are like huge, huge benefits of being a business owner rather than just a W 2 employee. Yeah. And I want to touch on the one thing and we don't dive too much into it, but it was eyeopening for me was a handful of years ago, four or five years ago when I started a 401k in the business.

Dr. Kevin Christie: And yeah, you know, if you're going to do that, there's probable, you know, you got to get offered to your employees at some point in a match, um, but I maxed mine out and it was like, I used to. You know, pay myself and then it was after tax and then I would save that money and maybe put it into a stock market or something.

But when I did the pretext, the 401k, one of that cool benefits of it was obviously [00:09:00] lowering my taxable income, um, which, which has been a nice benefit to us. Um, what are some of your thoughts on, on that? Yeah, we love implementing retirement accounts in with your business. A lot of business owners don't think that you can implement a retirement account in the business.

Barbara Schreihans: Whereas like it's a business deduction. A lot of people think you just have to do it, you know, later on through your personal account. And there's so many great. Great ones out there for people that don't have other employees besides their kids and spouses or full time employees, um, a solo 401k is amazing.

You can put up to 69, 000. Every year away, double that. If you and your spouse are in business together. So that's like 140, 000. That is a business deduction for you. And you're just putting your money into a retirement account. That's yours. So essentially you're like paying yourself and getting a business deduction.

And when you do start [00:10:00] retirement accounts in your business, you can get a retirement. Plan tax credit. So you actually get a tax credit for the cost of implementing the plan. And if you have employees, you get an even bigger credit as well. Yeah, I love that. And one of the things that I've come to realize is that as a small business owner, you're, you're playing a different game, um, than say your friends that are W 2 for a corporation.

Dr. Kevin Christie: And they, you know, they, Let's just, you know, they make a salary, they get their tax and they do all that. Uh, but they can easily on a tax return, say I make 125, 000 a year as a small business owner, it can look a little funky, right? Like you, you may not look like you make, let's just say 125, 000 a year on your Tax return, but as a owner, it's almost like there's a, you got to like add all of it up.

Like you're kind of owner benefits slash compensation. Right. And, um, maybe you're taking home a certain amount, but yeah, you [00:11:00] put in 40, 000 into an IRA, right. That's, that's, that's, you should count that in your mind is like, yeah, I made that as income. It's just being saved and it doesn't show up on my tax return, which is Good news.

Um, or, you know, you mentioned something I would love for you to touch base on a bit and you, you dove into this more into our zoom call, um, but was like kids and spouses, right? Like, uh, talk to us a little bit about that. Yeah. I love involving your family into the business, not just for tax reasons, but more of just like generational wealth, teaching your kids more about business and money and how.

Barbara Schreihans: You know, you can generate profit and sales and marketing. So many like valuable things that our kids need to learn that they don't learn in school, but there's also a tax benefit for it too. You know, the IRS wants you to involve your spouse and your kids in your business, like that's really how small businesses started [00:12:00] back, you know, hundreds of years ago.

And so they incentivize you for that by allowing you. To you can either hire your spouse. You can add them on as a part owner. You can add them on to your board of advisors or board of directors and same with your Children. And there's huge tax benefits to that. I mean, the whatever you're paying them is a deduction in your business.

You can add them on to your retirement plans. Maybe they, they all need cars for the business. You can add them into your business travel expenses. So now whenever you travel together and you have a business reason or purpose for that, or you want to have a board meeting in the Bahamas, like that can all be a business expense.

So, um, you don't have to be like so rigid in In the expenses that you're taking, you just have to tie it somehow to your business and that it can in some way, shape, or form generate revenue for you. And then. Yeah, just like make it fun. Yeah, no, definitely. And, and obviously, uh, it's [00:13:00] got nice tax implications there too.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Now, what are a couple of things, cause I think a lot of people can connect the dots on, you know, employing their spouse in the practice of some, um, of some nature, but what are a couple, a few things that you could, um, take Technically hire, um, your kids for as far as, um, say a chiropractic practice. Yeah. I mean, kids, I mean, depending on their ages.

Barbara Schreihans: Right. But we have like people that employ their 10 year olds for social media management, like 10, 12 year olds, no social media so much more than we do, especially like Tik TOK. And there is a huge, I think, um, gap to fill with Tik TOK. Like you can make a lot of money on there, especially in the professional services.

Cause so many people are on there like doing dumb stuff that when you actually put like value out there, people are going to watch and listen. But yeah, social media management, they can take your photos, take your videos. Like my six year old is the best photographer. Like [00:14:00] my husband sucks at taking photos.

Like he's the worst. I do not ask him to take photos anymore, but my six year old loves to do it. And he'll take like a hundred photos for me. And you know, one of those hundred will be great. So they can take your photos. You can use them as models in your own business. So, um, we have a lot of chiropractor clients that focus on like mommy's health and pregnant ladies or babies.

And so like use your kids as models in those videos when you're adjusting them, they can be doing admin work. So can they reply to emails? Can they do, can they schedule calls? We have clients that will send. Videos of their kids being like, Hey, how is your appointment? We'd love your feedback, you know? And like, who wouldn't want to respond to a cute eight year old asking you, you know, how your appointment went.

So there's so many different ways. We have a list of over a hundred different things your kids can do in your business. That's great. Yeah. And obviously if you're, if you're talking about 15 year olds, 16 year olds, 17 year olds, they obviously have a high capacity to do things and it could even be things [00:15:00] like filing and you could probably have cleaning and, um, I'm going to start bringing my kids in at some points or cleaning at chiropractic tables.

Dr. Kevin Christie: And so I'm sure there's a lot of things. A lot of things they can do, um, to do that. There's a lot of benefits in that. Obviously you want to do it the right way. And that's the type of stuff, that's the type of stuff that you help them with documenting and tracking and all that. So that's, um, that's really cool.

Um, you know, you do work a lot of chiropractors and that's how we met you is through one of our, uh, mastermind members, which was, which was great. And, um, from a, you know, a chiropractic practice standpoint, uh, what are a couple other kind of low hanging fruit things. The, that the doctor could the, the practice owner could, um, you know, save on some taxes and strategically, uh, improve their situation there.

Barbara Schreihans: I think the biggest thing and the 1st thing people should look at is how they're structured. So what entity type they are, because if you're running a practice where you're making over 40, 000 a year. You should probably look into being an S [00:16:00] corporation and people just like miss the boat on that. They get their LLC for liability protection, but then they kind of just like set it and forget it.

But you should always be looking at your revenue, your profit and see, is there another entity structure that can help me save? So for example, if you're making a hundred thousand dollars in your practice and you're just an LLC, you're going to be paying 15, 300 more. Then the chiropractor, that's an S corporation.

So, and that number goes up. Even more if you're making more obviously than a hundred K. So, so looking at how you're structured is huge. And unfortunately, like a lot of accountants don't know how S corporations work, so they don't suggest it to people soon enough. Or I just like to say like, they're lazy too, because there's a lot of work on our end that we have to do to set you up as an escort, make sure you're.

On payroll that you're taking the right amount of payroll, that you're having a board meeting every year. So there's a lot of, [00:17:00] unfortunately, lazy accountants out there too, that just tell people, Oh, you're not ready to be an S corp and people just believe them, but it's like, keep asking questions, you know, No, it makes a lot of sense for sure.

Dr. Kevin Christie: And I think, um, I was probably a year in, in, in my account this, but I, I owe my price 2010, I think it was 2011, because I was an LLC traditional, and then we did the subchapter s or S corp from that. And, uh, I was like, wow, I didn't know that. That's, that's pretty fascinating. That that makes that big of a, big of a difference, you know.

Barbara Schreihans: Yeah. Well, it's good. You did it just a year and we'll see clients like they're 15 years old. And they, the business is 15 years old and like, they've never been an S corp. I'm like, Oh my gosh, you could have saved like 20 grand a year, every year for 15 years. Yeah. You know, it's, I didn't do everything right out of the gates.

Dr. Kevin Christie: It's been a slow bake, uh, with good, uh, part of what's great about this podcast is I've had it for seven years and I learned a lot of different things, uh, from our guests, like, like yourself and a couple of things that I. I [00:18:00] have learned, uh, over the years, and I want you to speak on one of them, but just for our chiropractors out there is some of your, um, elevation chiropractic tables.

Uh, so some of the chiropractic tables out there qualify for an ADA credit, uh, tax credit. And so I have a couple, a few of those. So I've taken those when that was done. So if you haven't done that, look into that. Um, the other thing is, is obviously depreciation of, of equipment. And real estate. So like I own my office, real estate, and I know some other chiropractors do, can you speak to the depreciation aspect a little bit?

I know it can get into weeds quite a bit, but, um, that is something I'm assuming some accountants probably get lazy, uh, on as well. Yeah. So speaking on building ownership, so let's say you're a chiropractor, you have a chiropractic business, that's one entity you want to make sure your real estate isn't a separate entity because your business is active in the eyes of the IRS and your real estate is passive in the eyes of the IRS.

Barbara Schreihans: So you don't want to mix your [00:19:00] active and passive income. So let's say that that is done correctly.

building that you purchased, there's kind of two ways to depreciate it. And the normal way, like most accountants are going to take the building, they're going to divide it by 39 years. Most commercial buildings you depreciate over 39 years. And so that means, let's say you had a purchase price of 390 K you divided by 39.

So you get 10, 000 a year in depreciation expense, meaning you get to take 10 K of expenses. And Then to take it even further, you want to make sure if you own a building that you take advantage of cost segregation studies. So a cost segregation study will accelerate that 39 years. So we're going to say now, cause it has to be signed off by a CPA firm or an engineering firm, but Hey, that whole building is not 39 year property.

You know, the [00:20:00] flooring is five years. The paint is five years. There's appliances that are seven years. You know, we break everything out in the building. So that it's faster than 39, which means you get more deductions. So one, make sure you're getting a cost seg on your property. The other huge one that is really, really missed by most accountants, it's called the self rental election.

Now this can only be made if you own your practice, the same percentage that you own your building. So let's say, um, you Kevin own your chiropractic business, 100%. But when you bought your building, you happen to buy it 50 50 with a spouse because most real estate in most states you have to buy it 50 50 unless you sign a form that gives it up.

Um, You can't make that election now because you own it in different percentages, but let's say you also own the building 100%. Now you can make the self rental election, which makes it so that this passive [00:21:00] activity is now active and the losses from your real estate can offset your business income. And this is huge, because if we do a cost tag on your property, and we can make you at 100, 000 loss.

On the rental, you now get to basically take a hundred thousand dollar deduction on your business. So you're only taxed at whatever, a hundred K less than your profit is, which is like such a cool thing. And most accounts don't know how to, how to make that election or that. It's even. That's a good one.

Dr. Kevin Christie: That's a really good one. Um, and you know, I think that's something I talked a lot of chiropractors about buying their real estate and you never want to buy the real estate if it's going to like kill your practice, right? Like you buy too much, it's, you can't afford it. Your practice is draining money for that.

You know, there's, there's negatives to buying real estate. There's obviously a lot of positives. I think most people look at the positive as the fact that, um, a, they're going to not, their rent's not going to increase every five years with a new lease. Um, you know, obviously it's going to be an [00:22:00] appreciation, but I think the thing they don't realize is the actual tax benefit of owning the real estate.

And so that's something to consider when you're, when you're doing all the math, if you're looking at buying a space. So I'm glad you, you touched on some, some key aspects to that. Yeah, I think a really good way to look at if they are looking at buying real estate and we go over this in our right off your real estate course.

Barbara Schreihans: But I tell people to calculate it four ways. One is what tax benefits are getting like depreciation to what the mortgage payoff is. So you're actually decreasing the amount you owe. Three, how much equity you're gaining. So every year, you know, if you're in a market that increases 3 percent every year, 5%, 10%, whatever it might be, but you're actually, you know, increasing your net, your net worth and.

And then the actual cash flow calculation, how much are you getting in excess of your mortgage that you're paying? So always, always calculate those four ways, add the percentages together, and that's actually your [00:23:00] benefit of owning that property. That's good. I'm going to, uh, make sure I write that out in our show notes.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Uh, that was a good little bullet point there, uh, because there's a lot of moving parts for chiropractors trying to figure out that real estate and that, that really helps, um, uh, with that. So thank you for that. Um, One, one kind of big topic here and it's, you know, it's something I think comes up with a lot of chiropractors is, um, you know, at the end of the year, their profit and loss statement says they made, let's just say 50, 000 in profit.

And they're like, where the hell did that 50, 000 is not in my account. Right. And so, um, they, they, they're, they're confused on that. And like, I don't have the 50, 000 and then they get hit with a tax kind of bomb of like, you know, account comes back. It's like, Oh, you owe 20, 000 in taxes. And they're like, well, should I don't have any of that money?

Um, and then it becomes a big burden. And I've run into that quite a few times talking to chiropractors that I coach, um, from just a business and marketing standpoint is like, [00:24:00] Oh, you know, things would be okay, but I just got my, my tax bill. Um, what are some. What are some strategies for that chiropractor to prepare better, uh, for what may be coming?

Because obviously we want to be profitable. There's, uh, there's good things about profit and reinvesting it and things of that nature. Uh, what would you recommend they do to, to try to offset that situation? I explained. Yeah. Make sure that you have a really, really good bookkeeper and that bookkeeper will keep you on track monthly of, okay, here was your profit.

Barbara Schreihans: This is how much cash you actually have in your bank accounts and they'll, they should give you another report called your cash flow statement and your cash flow statement actually explains how much runway you have with your cash flow. So, what are your expenses monthly? How much cash do you have in the account?

Um, so that you can better plan. So, first, make sure you have a really good bookkeeper and that they're keeping up with it [00:25:00] monthly. Then make sure you have a really, really good tax strategist because they'll be giving you quarterly estimated taxes. Like you should not get to the end of the year. And have a 20, 000 tax bill that you were not expecting.

That means your accountant was not planning correctly. And, or you didn't give them the information either correctly, accurately on time, whatever it might be. So you have to plan and pay your estimates every quarter so that you're not surprised later, because it's a lot easier to pay a 5, 000. Bill every quarter, then a year later.

And you're like, oh my gosh, I have to pay 20 K, but I spent it on that family vacation at Christmas time. Right? So again, make sure you're meeting with your accountant every quarter and. Have a, some sort of savings account where you're putting a little bit of money away every month for taxes, because taxes, we see it all the time.

Like puts people out of business. [00:26:00] They get that mindset of like, oh my gosh, why am I working this hard in my business? And I have to pay all this money to taxes, but in reality, it's just poor planning. Because if you looked at your effective tax rate as a business owner, it's so much lower than W2 earners.

You just have to be a little bit stricter with yourself. Uh, makes sense. And, uh, I just want to wrap up a little bit here on kind of going back to what we started in the beginning was, was defining a little bit more of tax strategies versus a bookkeeper versus account. Because, you know, we get a lot of these people and chiropractors in the Facebook groups and they'll, they'll start bringing up the question.

Dr. Kevin Christie: It's like, oh, how much should I pay? Pay for accounting. And then people throw out these numbers and it's like, well, when you actually look, it's like, well, that's actually just tax preparation. That's a one fee tax preparation accountant. You're not really working with them throughout the, throughout the calendar year, or you'll see somewhere.

It's a, you know, a monthly thing, but it's really actually, they're talking about their bookkeeping, not their [00:27:00] accounting. You'll be surprised. There's a lot of confusion amongst chiropractors on what, uh, what that is. And then with the, uh, In my opinion, like with a tax strategist, you're, you're bringing on someone that you're, you're actually looking for a return on the investment you're making in that tax strategist.

Whereas obviously like an account, it's just like. You just have to pay the bill to get your taxes done. Like it's just, it's, it's not necessarily, there's not going to be a return on that investment on the fact that you're not going to go to jail. Right. Um, so with a tax strategist, like you're actually investing dollars into a person or a group.

That should have a return on investment. And so you got to look at it a little bit differently than again, just your tax preparation, filing that type of stuff. And so I just, um, did I get that accurate? Can, is there anything you need to kind of shine on that there that I, that I spit out? Yeah, no, I think you hit it.

Barbara Schreihans: Perfectly. I always tell people, well, when they, when they're [00:28:00] like, Oh, I just pay my tax person a thousand dollars to prepare my, my return. And it's like, but what is that person costing you? So that same scenario of, Oh, I, I surprisingly owed 20, 000. Well, If I could have saved you 20,000, that accountant that you only paid a thousand bucks to really cost you $21,000 because you overpaid by 20,000 and they charged you a thousand.

So really their cost was 21,000. Right? If I charged you 10,000 and saved you 20, then you just made $10,000. I didn't cost you anything. Mm-Hmm. , you know, and that's our goal with every single one of our clients, is to save you way more than. What our fees are. And we check that ahead of time. You know, we're looking at your numbers.

We're looking at past tax returns and we can give you an estimated number of what we know we can save you. And then year over year, you're actually going to be saving more money because the more we know about you, the more we can dig into your numbers. The more we know your [00:29:00] goals, you're just inevitably going to save more money in taxes.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. And that's one of our goals here at MCM is, is getting chiropractors to kind of rewire the mindset a little bit of, um, you know, that return on investment that you, sometimes you got to spend money to actually make money or spend money to save a lot of money. And that could be in things like this.

It can be in hiring certain people. It could be in coaching. Like there's a lot of different ways where chiropractors need to be able to. Maybe outlay some money to make money or obviously save a lot of money and, and, and run a much more efficient business. And it's just exponential when you start adding over the years of, like, if you learn all this stuff now and you apply for the next 20 years of your career, how much money that is, right.

Versus if you just keep on dragging your feet and then you regret it down the road when you figured it out when you were 55 years old. Right. So, um, yeah, I I'm glad you gave us that breakdown. Uh, I know we're running up against the clock here. How can our audience find out more about what you have to offer?

Barbara Schreihans: Yeah, go to your [00:30:00] tax coach. com and follow us on Instagram at your tax coach. We like to drop like daily tax tips and tricks. So even if you just follow along to learn more, more things, education is power. So thanks for having me. Awesome. This was phenomenal. A lot of great information. And, uh, I want to thank you again for doing that zoom training for our, our, uh, mastermind.

Dr. Kevin Christie: We were able to really go in depth with some things and we got a ton of great, uh, feedback on that. And because one of our goals this year for the mastermind was to make our members, uh, completely financially literate and feel like they're really starting to, uh, own, own the finances of, of practice.

Barbara Schreihans: Amazing. Thank you.